Working in Cinema 4D

[Gare]

Okay—

Welles downloaded the octagon Cinema 4D file, also downloaded the demo of C4D, and sent me a screen cap...no problems on a Mac.

But Kiwi told me that you probably need try "file get info" when selecting the c4d file,then browse to the bottom of the info command window, then roll down the "open with"— and select Cinema 4d from the list.The problem could be that terminal is set to open those kind of files and it does not recognize c4d as its meant to.

Sound helpful, but then again I always thought there was an actual wizard inside my computer that does tasks for me.

My Best,

Gare

[Gare]

Hi Gare,
Associating C4D files in the Get Info box—specifying that files with a '.c4d; file ending should always open in Cinema 4D via was one of the first things I tried. I just tried it again and got the 'Unknown File Format' error.

I wonder if the version could be the problem? I'm using the Demo version of Cinema 4D XL 8.0.1.1, dated 2002. Does your full version save as in different versions—v8, v9, etc? 

Alternatively, something could be getting mangled in cyberspace. Could you e-mail a C4D file to me? .

Everything else is coming through. Your file octogon bottle.ai is in C4D now. Thanks for the font by the way. It works a treat.

Thanks,

Ian

[Gare]

Yes, Ian, I do believe the version of the demo you're using is the show-stopper here!

A lot of C4D users complain that Cinema 4D files are not backward-compatible. I use both version 9.6 and version 10.1, because I have a few 3rd party plug-ins that their developers never updated for version 10, so they won't work in version 10. What that does to my workflow is quite nightmarish: I've set up duplicate files for vs 9 and 10; fortunately, version 10 warns me if I try to save a version 9 file to 10: "Are you sure you want this previous version of this Cinema 4D file completely buggared?"...or some such!

1. I recommend that you download the demo for version 10, Ian.

current C4D demo version

2. I have other recommendations for "try before you buy". First, find something that you can work in and stick with it. Modeling is a "deep" study, and it's a PITA to get a year down the road, decide you like a different application and then have to find some way to migrate existing data. This is true of modeling, video editing, and digital music studios, to name but a few. I've worked with Blender and you might try it. It's hard to learn, no modeler I know of in 2008 is easy to work in, but it's open source, well-documented, has a lot of advanced features such as fluid dynamics and particle systems.

Blender.org's Official site

modo v 302 is incredible and you do have to be a rocket scientist to get anything out of this modeling/rendering/animation package. Originally designed by defectors from NewTek Lightwave, they've built a huge following among architecture and product design professionals. The scene builder's union in Hollywood has blessed the program, and although the modeling part is counter-intuitive (you work a lot with primitives instead of sweeping paths to make your geometry) I love it and it's rendering engine is as good as the Gold Standard, Maxwell Render. Lots of community, documentation, and support.

modo 302 demo

I work between modo and C4D, actually. File formats such as FBX and OBJ make it relatively painless.

Ian, I've been using modeling programs since 1992, so I've been around the block and can recommend these current items. I came off the late, great Macromedia MacroModel (Swivel 3D when the company was MacroMind) and Cinema 4D just made a lot of sense to me from the experience.

Not to get political here; take programs I might not be mentioning here as "un-recommendations"!

Get C4D 10 so I can pass you some files with which you can learn some stuff, okay? It takes me 15 minutes away from an otherwise rote existence and I live to teach...

My Best,

Gare

[IanB]

Hi Gare,
You know how it is; you can’t solve a problem, so you pack it in and do something completely different? Well, I cleared my head and decided it must be the version. I’d resisted downloading the latest demo because it’s 192mb. I clicked the download link and the progress bar reported 11.8 kbps with an estimated download time of 4 hours, 30 minutes…welcome to the 21st century!

While I was reading your message, an e-mail arrived from Nick, the developer of Intaglio. He’d corrected a problem that I reported and sent a link to the update. I clicked it without thinking about the speed problem and would you believe it—the download speed was 57 kbps—5 times faster than Maxon…

Your recommendations are most welcome. You can’t beat personal recommendations. I had Blender already, but haven’t done anything with it yet. It did look terribly complex, but so do all the other 3D apps. I’ll go to the modo site later. You mentioned Macromedia; did you ever use Extreme 3D? I have this program; it was supplied in the same bundle as Fontographer.

Learning curves don’t bother me. I know it’s going to be a struggle, so why worry? Learning new skills does take time, but it’s worth the effort. Guitars are an excellent analogy; it can take a while, but once you’ve learned a few chops, you can play a lot of tunes.

Love the Rickenbackers. I’ve not played the six-string, but I did try a Rickenbacker bass many years ago and it was a wonderful instrument, genuinely inspiring. I didn’t buy it because I already had a Fender Jazz and was I saving to buy a flat (apartment) !

For several years I’ve wanted to create 3D images of my two guitars, which I built myself. The other is to design a car—I know, learn to walk before starting to run…

As I write, C4D 10 is downloading. The speed has increased to a dizzying 11.9 kbps—only 3 minutes to go. Please send me your files; I’d be happy to be your pupil.

I’ll follow up on your textures tutorials tomorrow—sorry, later today. It’s past midnight here in the U.K. and I’m keeping my eyelids open with matchsticks.

Regards,

Ian

[Gare]

Hi, Ian—

I'll probably start writing you privately; I'd like to keep the forum posts open and of interest to all. I've kept the links up for the example files...once you get the demo of C4D 10 installed I think they'll open just fine.

Besides being impossible to learn (!), today's modeling programs have branched into what I see as two forks in this road. Because we users are mostly insulated from the mind-boggling math behind modeling in 3D space, we often don't even realize that there are two different "presentations", paradigms, if you will, for building models.

1. Solid geometry. The areas you mark in 3D space define a volume, a solid. 3D Studio Max has always used this type of math; the advantage is that it's very easy to perform Boolean operations on such a structure: you subtract a cylinder from a plane and bingo, you got a hole in a piece of lumber. The disadvantage which AutoDesk has addressed in recent versions is surface smoothing. Because you're working with true solids that are defined using vectors from one point in space to another, your models tend to look a little blocky unless you perform selective surface subdivision—you create higher resolution in areas that need to look smoother. Additionally, (and I'm not truly hip on 3DS so forgive any errors here) there's some type of operator in 3DS that's a "smoothing wrapper" similar to C4D's HyperNURBs operator that performs additional smoothing without incurring a high polygon count (which cripples you at rendering time).

2. Surface geometry. The object you create is eggshell thin, there's no volume defined, but only an "inside this area" and "outside this area". This is also called "parametric"...the splines you use approximate the surface so smoothing is easily accomplished. Typically models are built using surface geometry with splines you build and then you perform an operation (extruding, lofting, and so on) to get your model. To me, this is very intuitive, more so than pushing and pulling solid geometry around which is what I believe you're doing in programs such as Mudbox. The disadvantage to working with parametric surfaces is that you wind up with end caps on objects such as extrudes and occasionally you run into problems subtracting an area that is both the side and the end cap of an object.

Happily, we're presented with both paradigms in programs such as Maya, modo, and Cinema 4D. for example, you're working with non-uniform rational B-splines (curves, NURBs) in C4D which approximate a surface until you're stuck for a solution to get to a perfect shape, in which case you press C to make the object editable and you're working now with polygons.

Yeah, it's a drag "learning guitar" as you make the analogy, Ian, but think of the splendid pieces you can produce after practicing. A good sentiment and I'm always curious as to why musicians and artists cross over so frequently! I used to own the Rick 330 I modeled...I think I have over 30 different makes and models in my past. I did used to own a Rick 4001 bass, sold it unwisely because it had a custom finish and reverse hardware, but if you still play, you're probably best off with the Fender Jazz. The Rick bass cuts through crowds quite nicely but it proved to be a real dud for me when I used it in a studio. In contrast, I found a Jazz Bass to be a teensy bit muddy when playing in a club, but it recorded deep and beautifully. Today I use a Digital Audio Workspace on my computer, a Rick solid body 6 string (swapped out the pickups, really need a slender neck for my wimpy hands), and VSTs that faithfully emulate the "thump" of a Hofner bass and I have a fair but not excellent Rick 12-string VSTi.

Yes, I've used Extreme 3D. But it was orphaned back in 1998, it still runs under Windows XP, and basically I was able to take 80% of what I learned in E3D into Cinema 4D. There are a lot of interface and procedural similarities.

My Best,

Gare

[IanB]

Hi Gare,
Everything is now working. C4D 10 opened the .c4d files and rendered them. The interface is the same as in your screengrabs.

More later,

Ian